<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:georss="http://www.georss.org/georss" xmlns:geo="http://www.w3.org/2003/01/geo/wgs84_pos#" xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments for Reading Nephi Reading Isaiah</title>
	<atom:link href="http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com</link>
	<description>A few Mormon scholars discuss 2 Nephi 26-27</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 06:45:27 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.com/</generator>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by jennywebb</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-189</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jennywebb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 06:45:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every time I&#039;ve come back to this post, I&#039;m intrigued ... I also keep hoping I&#039;ll have some helpful comment to add, but I&#039;m still circling around anything useful. In any case, I just wanted to add my support for the general consensus of great work—thank you!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every time I&#8217;ve come back to this post, I&#8217;m intrigued &#8230; I also keep hoping I&#8217;ll have some helpful comment to add, but I&#8217;m still circling around anything useful. In any case, I just wanted to add my support for the general consensus of great work—thank you!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by joespencer</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joespencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 05:03:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So long as I have a title from you ... :)

More seriously, feel quite free to go in whatever direction you would like. I&#039;m personally more excited about the paper topic you two were talking about earlier, but I &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; think this post would make a good paper. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So long as I have a title from you &#8230; :)</p>
<p>More seriously, feel quite free to go in whatever direction you would like. I&#8217;m personally more excited about the paper topic you two were talking about earlier, but I <i>do</i> think this post would make a good paper. :)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by hghardy</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hghardy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 22:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-187</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So does this enthusiasm mean that we don&#039;t have to write a paper?  That we could just send Kiim in to read this blog entry on our behalf at the conference?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So does this enthusiasm mean that we don&#8217;t have to write a paper?  That we could just send Kiim in to read this blog entry on our behalf at the conference?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by jap37</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-186</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jap37]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 19:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-186</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m with Joe and Kim.  I think your work here is great.  I read it on Monday and still haven&#039;t come up with anything to add though I&#039;ll keep trying.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with Joe and Kim.  I think your work here is great.  I read it on Monday and still haven&#8217;t come up with anything to add though I&#8217;ll keep trying.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by kimmatheson</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-185</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kimmatheson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 18:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-185</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If Joe thinks it sounds good, then I feel comfortable expressing my own enthusiasm. Very thorough work, and I agree completely with the conclusion.

Which raises the following question: &lt;i&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; does this book (texts in general) result in the reversal?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Joe thinks it sounds good, then I feel comfortable expressing my own enthusiasm. Very thorough work, and I agree completely with the conclusion.</p>
<p>Which raises the following question: <i>why</i> does this book (texts in general) result in the reversal?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Nephi 27:27-35 by joespencer</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/2-nephi-2727-35/#comment-184</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joespencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 16:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=86#comment-184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[H&amp;G, this is fantastic! I don&#039;t believe I have a word to add. Great work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>H&amp;G, this is fantastic! I don&#8217;t believe I have a word to add. Great work.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Ne. 27:20-26 by jennywebb</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/2-ne-2720-26/#comment-183</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jennywebb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 23:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-183</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Joe, I haven&#039;t, but now I&#039;m curious ...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, I haven&#8217;t, but now I&#8217;m curious &#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Ne. 27:20-26 by joespencer</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/2-ne-2720-26/#comment-182</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[joespencer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jenny, have you read the paper on Isaiah I posted to LDS-HERM last week or so? It deals with exactly this theme in Isaiah generally....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenny, have you read the paper on Isaiah I posted to LDS-HERM last week or so? It deals with exactly this theme in Isaiah generally&#8230;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Ne. 27:20-26 by jennywebb</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/2-ne-2720-26/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jennywebb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 06:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-181</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A quick thought (my full response will be tomorrow): Julie asks

&quot;Why does God say “touch” not the things that are sealed? I think H/G’s point that these verses are unique because it is actually God’s voice. So why the emphasis on the materiality of the sealed portion rather than the content?&quot;

I&#039;m wondering if we can see a parallel between the emphasis on the materiality of the sealed portion and the emphasis on textuality in Isaiah 29, i.e., Isa. 29 contrasts two forms of seeking revelation: mystical and textual. Those who follow the &quot;familiar spirit&quot; route and those who follow the textual route. 

Perhaps the materiality implied in &quot;touch&quot; says something similar about the nature of the sealed text? In other words, an acknowledgment that God gives literally physical texts? That revelation without some sort of physical touchstone is open to misappropriation? (And, of course, this would then tie into revelation as well as ordinances in the temple—we have the temple in part to press upon us a physical consciousness of God?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A quick thought (my full response will be tomorrow): Julie asks</p>
<p>&#8220;Why does God say “touch” not the things that are sealed? I think H/G’s point that these verses are unique because it is actually God’s voice. So why the emphasis on the materiality of the sealed portion rather than the content?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering if we can see a parallel between the emphasis on the materiality of the sealed portion and the emphasis on textuality in Isaiah 29, i.e., Isa. 29 contrasts two forms of seeking revelation: mystical and textual. Those who follow the &#8220;familiar spirit&#8221; route and those who follow the textual route. </p>
<p>Perhaps the materiality implied in &#8220;touch&#8221; says something similar about the nature of the sealed text? In other words, an acknowledgment that God gives literally physical texts? That revelation without some sort of physical touchstone is open to misappropriation? (And, of course, this would then tie into revelation as well as ordinances in the temple—we have the temple in part to press upon us a physical consciousness of God?)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>Comment on 2 Ne. 27:20-26 by hghardy</title>
		<link>http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/2-ne-2720-26/#comment-180</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[hghardy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 00:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://nephireadingisaiah.wordpress.com/?p=82#comment-180</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for all the fine comments.  We particularly liked Joe&#039;s &quot;security clearance&quot; analogy.

Kim - For us, reading the Book of Mormon as the work of Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni--distinguishing the characteristic styles, strategies, and concerns of the three major narrators--was a major breakthrough in helping us to better understand the text.  You&#039;re asking exactly the right sorts of questions (even though we&#039;re not sure we have all the answers yet).

Julie - It does seem like Nephi is doing something special in these chapters.  Perhaps 1 Ne. 22 is similar in how it reworks key terms and phrases from Isaiah into a new prophecy, but 2 Ne. 26-27 offer a particularly focused interpretation and expansion of of a single chapter of Isaiah.  We wonder if this isn&#039;t something that is fairly unique to Nephi&#039;s life-circumstances.  Nephi knows and loves the scriptures, but there is no indication that his children feel the same way.  Indeed, Nephi explicitly says that &quot;they know not the manner of prophesying among the Jews&quot; and that he deliberately chose not to teach them &quot;concerning the manner of the Jews&quot; (2 Ne. 25:1-2).  He is keenly aware that an entire tradition of Jewish exegesis will die with him.  (He tries to get Jacob involved [2 Ne. 6:4] and sees some success at 2 Ne. 6-10, but we have to wonder whether Nephi helped Jacob with that talk; after Nephi is gone, Jacob never produces anything like it in his own book).  Abinadi and Jesus do some creative readings of Isaiah 52-54, but this mode of midrashic interpretation is quite rare in the Book of Mormon.  Mormon never does anything like it and neither does Moroni.

Joe - It does seem like Mormon&#039;s project changes when he discovers the small plates.  He had originally envisioned a straight-through abridgment of the large plates.  When he decided to add the small plates as an appendix, his history would have both started and ended with an account of the first generations of the Lehites.  It would have been wonderful to get two versions of the origin story--one in a primary source and the other secondary, but Martin Harris ruined that the book-ends format that Mormon came to adopt. 

A few more random responses to questions Joe raised:

1) Regarding the distinction between the words and the book, it&#039;s interesting that Moroni (again) addresses the topic directly, referring to an otherwise unspecified &quot;commandment of the Lord&quot;--&quot;the plates thereof are of no worth, because of a commandment of the Lord (for he truly saith that no one shall have them to get gain), but the record thereof is of great worth...&quot; (Morm. 8:14).  Book of Mormon authors regularly distinguish &quot;the records&quot; from &quot;the plates,&quot; with the former being &quot;engraven&quot; on the latter, even though we might assume that you can&#039;t really have one without the other.

2) The centrality of readers&#039; faith with respect to the Lord&#039;s making particular revelations available in text form is similarly substantiated in his conversation with Mormon reported in 3 Ne. 26:6-12, summarized in vs. 11: &quot;I will try the faith of my people.&quot;

3) We&#039;re intrigued by your formulation of &quot;Nephi&#039;s Theory of Reading,&quot; as embracing the words without requiring the book itself.  Is it possible that the distinction also encompasses the notion that the Lord repeatedly refers to the words as his own, that is, the words of the book shall proceed forth out of his own mouth (2 Ne. 3:21; 29:2; cf. 27:20--&quot;the words which I shall give unto thee&quot;)?

You comment as well that &quot;for Nephi, faithful reading is not something we undertake in a quest for knowledge but a quest for revelation&quot; is appealing--but we&#039;re still thinking about it!  Oddly enough, when the Spirit asks Nephi what he desires after seeing the tree his father had described from his dream, Nephi defies our expectations.  We might assume that he would say &quot;I want to taste of the fruit; I want to be happy.&quot;  This, after all, was fruit that would bring &quot;exceeding great joy&quot; (1 Ne. 8:12).  Instead, Nephi&#039;s request is, &quot;to know the interpretation thereof&quot; (1 Ne. 11:9-11).  His own quest for knowledge results in a Pandora&#039;s-box of lifelong grief (1 Ne. 15:4-5; 2 Ne. 26:7).

4) You ask if Joseph Smith was told the words of 27:20-26 in some instance separate from his translation/reading of the text.  JS-H 1:19 indicates that Jesus Christ himself quoted at least a phrase of Isa. 29 to Joseph in the First Vision.  And it seems possible that Moroni may have quoted some of the first statement in his Sep 21, 1823 visit, though this account is rendered in paraphrase (JS-H 1:34-35).  When Joseph was translating, did he recognize the &quot;unlearned man&quot; as himself?  Did he remember the words the Lord had spoken to him several years earlier in the sacred grove: &quot;they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men&quot; (followed by a quotation from 2 Tim. 3:5).  Or did Joseph borrow familiar words from Isaiah to communicate his experience when he was recalling in in 1838.  [One more odd note--the paraphrase of Isa 29:13 at JS-H 1:19 substitutes &quot;they teach for doctrines the commandments of men&quot; for Isaiah&#039;s &quot;their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men.&quot;  This new variant appears to match the reading of the Septuagint (in a footnote to the NIV): &quot;Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men&quot; (Masoretic Text) vs. &quot;They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men&quot; (LXX)]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for all the fine comments.  We particularly liked Joe&#8217;s &#8220;security clearance&#8221; analogy.</p>
<p>Kim &#8211; For us, reading the Book of Mormon as the work of Nephi, Mormon, and Moroni&#8211;distinguishing the characteristic styles, strategies, and concerns of the three major narrators&#8211;was a major breakthrough in helping us to better understand the text.  You&#8217;re asking exactly the right sorts of questions (even though we&#8217;re not sure we have all the answers yet).</p>
<p>Julie &#8211; It does seem like Nephi is doing something special in these chapters.  Perhaps 1 Ne. 22 is similar in how it reworks key terms and phrases from Isaiah into a new prophecy, but 2 Ne. 26-27 offer a particularly focused interpretation and expansion of of a single chapter of Isaiah.  We wonder if this isn&#8217;t something that is fairly unique to Nephi&#8217;s life-circumstances.  Nephi knows and loves the scriptures, but there is no indication that his children feel the same way.  Indeed, Nephi explicitly says that &#8220;they know not the manner of prophesying among the Jews&#8221; and that he deliberately chose not to teach them &#8220;concerning the manner of the Jews&#8221; (2 Ne. 25:1-2).  He is keenly aware that an entire tradition of Jewish exegesis will die with him.  (He tries to get Jacob involved [2 Ne. 6:4] and sees some success at 2 Ne. 6-10, but we have to wonder whether Nephi helped Jacob with that talk; after Nephi is gone, Jacob never produces anything like it in his own book).  Abinadi and Jesus do some creative readings of Isaiah 52-54, but this mode of midrashic interpretation is quite rare in the Book of Mormon.  Mormon never does anything like it and neither does Moroni.</p>
<p>Joe &#8211; It does seem like Mormon&#8217;s project changes when he discovers the small plates.  He had originally envisioned a straight-through abridgment of the large plates.  When he decided to add the small plates as an appendix, his history would have both started and ended with an account of the first generations of the Lehites.  It would have been wonderful to get two versions of the origin story&#8211;one in a primary source and the other secondary, but Martin Harris ruined that the book-ends format that Mormon came to adopt. </p>
<p>A few more random responses to questions Joe raised:</p>
<p>1) Regarding the distinction between the words and the book, it&#8217;s interesting that Moroni (again) addresses the topic directly, referring to an otherwise unspecified &#8220;commandment of the Lord&#8221;&#8211;&#8221;the plates thereof are of no worth, because of a commandment of the Lord (for he truly saith that no one shall have them to get gain), but the record thereof is of great worth&#8230;&#8221; (Morm. 8:14).  Book of Mormon authors regularly distinguish &#8220;the records&#8221; from &#8220;the plates,&#8221; with the former being &#8220;engraven&#8221; on the latter, even though we might assume that you can&#8217;t really have one without the other.</p>
<p>2) The centrality of readers&#8217; faith with respect to the Lord&#8217;s making particular revelations available in text form is similarly substantiated in his conversation with Mormon reported in 3 Ne. 26:6-12, summarized in vs. 11: &#8220;I will try the faith of my people.&#8221;</p>
<p>3) We&#8217;re intrigued by your formulation of &#8220;Nephi&#8217;s Theory of Reading,&#8221; as embracing the words without requiring the book itself.  Is it possible that the distinction also encompasses the notion that the Lord repeatedly refers to the words as his own, that is, the words of the book shall proceed forth out of his own mouth (2 Ne. 3:21; 29:2; cf. 27:20&#8211;&#8221;the words which I shall give unto thee&#8221;)?</p>
<p>You comment as well that &#8220;for Nephi, faithful reading is not something we undertake in a quest for knowledge but a quest for revelation&#8221; is appealing&#8211;but we&#8217;re still thinking about it!  Oddly enough, when the Spirit asks Nephi what he desires after seeing the tree his father had described from his dream, Nephi defies our expectations.  We might assume that he would say &#8220;I want to taste of the fruit; I want to be happy.&#8221;  This, after all, was fruit that would bring &#8220;exceeding great joy&#8221; (1 Ne. 8:12).  Instead, Nephi&#8217;s request is, &#8220;to know the interpretation thereof&#8221; (1 Ne. 11:9-11).  His own quest for knowledge results in a Pandora&#8217;s-box of lifelong grief (1 Ne. 15:4-5; 2 Ne. 26:7).</p>
<p>4) You ask if Joseph Smith was told the words of 27:20-26 in some instance separate from his translation/reading of the text.  JS-H 1:19 indicates that Jesus Christ himself quoted at least a phrase of Isa. 29 to Joseph in the First Vision.  And it seems possible that Moroni may have quoted some of the first statement in his Sep 21, 1823 visit, though this account is rendered in paraphrase (JS-H 1:34-35).  When Joseph was translating, did he recognize the &#8220;unlearned man&#8221; as himself?  Did he remember the words the Lord had spoken to him several years earlier in the sacred grove: &#8220;they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me; they teach for doctrines the commandments of men&#8221; (followed by a quotation from 2 Tim. 3:5).  Or did Joseph borrow familiar words from Isaiah to communicate his experience when he was recalling in in 1838.  [One more odd note--the paraphrase of Isa 29:13 at JS-H 1:19 substitutes "they teach for doctrines the commandments of men" for Isaiah's "their fear towards me is taught by the precepts of men."  This new variant appears to match the reading of the Septuagint (in a footnote to the NIV): "Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men" (Masoretic Text) vs. "They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men" (LXX)]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
